terrordisco fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum Fjöldi lestra: 1070

Sprengja Afghanistan

Ég rakst á grein núna rétt áðan sem mér finnst gefa mér nýtt
innsæi í þetta mál með hvort að eigi að ráðast inn í
afghanistan. Ég tek mér það bessaleyfi að paste'a þetta bara
beint inn hingað frekar en að linka þar sem að síðan sem ég
fann þetta á er þess eðlis að greinin verður ekki til staðar á
morgun.

Af hönnunarvefnum Newstoday.com;

Probably the most interesting thing I've read since Tuesday:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about “ Blowing Afghanistan
back to the Stone Age.” Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio
today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people,
people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but “'re at war,
we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?”
Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we “
have the belly to do what must be done.”

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard
because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived
here for 35 years I've never
lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone
who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin
Laden. My hatred comes from first hand experience. There is
no doubt in my mind that these
people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree
that
something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're
not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a
cult of ignorant psychotics
who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political
criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis.
When you think Bin Laden,think
Hitler. And when you think “ people of Afghanistan” think “
Jews in the concentration camps.”

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this
atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They
would exult if someone would come in there, take out the
Taliban and clear out the rats
nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the
Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt,
incapacitated, suffering. A
few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are
500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan–a country with no
economy, no food. There are
millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land
mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are
a few of the reasons why the Afghan
people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of “ Afghanistan back to the
Stone Age”. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took
care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already
suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn
their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their
hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off
from medicine and health care?
Too late. Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's
Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat,
only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away
and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those
disabled orphans, they don't move too
fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul
and dropping bombs would not really be a strike against the
criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be
making common cause with the
Taliban–by raping once again the people they've been raping
all this time.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now
speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin
Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people
speak of “ the belly to do what needs to be done” they're
thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms
about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the
sand. What's actually on
the table is Americans dying. And not just because some
Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to
Bin Laden's hideout. It's much
bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to
Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let
us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be
first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where
I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and
the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly
what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches
and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam
would beat the west. It might seem
ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into
Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west
wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with
nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of
view. He's probably wrong, in the end the
West would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would
last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.
Who has the belly for that? Unfortunately, Bin Laden does.
Anyone else?

In Peace,

Tamim Ansa

Iluvatar fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Athyglisverð grein, þetta er auðvitað alltsaman satt og rétt, ástæðulaust að hefna fyrir þessi ódæðisverk, sérstaklega þegar þeir sem munu verða fyrir þessu eru einmitt ekki þeir sem gerðu þetta, heldur önnur fórnarlömb.

Ég óttast samt að bandaríkjastjórn eigi eftir að gera eitthvað róttækt og óskynsamlegt sem þeir munu síðar sjá eftir, slíkur er æsingurinn þarna, heyrist kannski best á ræðunum sem Bush hefur haldið síðustu daga. Hann leggur áherslu á hefnd.

Iluavata

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ikorni fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Það er eitt sem mig langar að benda á. Fyrir nokkrum árum þá kom Vinstri stjórn í Afghanistan(Ekki Talibanar) og það var á þeim tíma þegar Kommahræðslan var sem mest í BNA. Þannig að BNA réðust inn á Afghanistan til að rústa þessari stjórn. ÞEtta voru ekki kommúnistar heldur vinstri menn. En forseti BNA, ég man ekki hvort það var Reagan eða einhver annar setja Sósíalist, vinsti menn í sama hatt og Kommúnismi. Eftir að það kom Talibana-stjórnin. Þá komu Sóvétmenn og réðust inn í landið.

Pælið í þessu BNA setti upp þessa Talibana-stjórn. Og stunda regluleg viðskipti við þá.

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pollyanna fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Það væri gott ef einhver gæti tekið það að sér að þýða þessa grein því þarna koma fram sjónarmið sem eiga að koma fram,ég treisti mér ekki í að þýða þetta.

Pollyanna

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[Notanda eytt] fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Í stuttu máli: Bandaríkjamenn eiga ekki að sprengja Afghanistan því þeir tóku ekki þátt í þessu. Með að ráðast á ríkin í kringum afghanistan mun skapast stríð, og það er nákvæmlega það sem Osama Bin Laden vill.

Annarsvegar er þetta rétt hjá karlinum. Í könnun sem var gerð í Bandaríkjunum þá vildi um helmingur sprengja Afghanistan þó að saklaust fólk mundi deyja. Eru Bandaríkjamenn þá ekkert skárri ef þeir drepa saklaust fólk líka?

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pollyanna fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

já ég skildi greinina en meinti að það ætti að þýða hana því það skilja hana kanski ekki allir og þarna eru sjónarmið sem þeir sem vilja sprengja afghanistan ættu að lesa

Pollyanna

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trAstiz fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

önnur athyglisverð grein:

Bush's Faustian Deal With the Taliban
By Robert Scheer
Published May 22, 2001 in the Los Angeles Times

Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists, destroy every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and the Bush administration will embrace you. All that matters is that you line up as an ally in the drug war, the only international cause that this nation still takes seriously.

That's the message sent with the recent gift of $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent anti-American violators of human rights in the world today. The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that “rogue regime” for declaring that opium growing is against the will of God. So, too, by the Taliban's estimation, are most human activities, but it's the ban on drugs that catches this administration's attention.

Never mind that Osama bin Laden still operates the leading anti-American terror operation from his base in Afghanistan, from which, among other crimes, he launched two bloody attacks on American embassies in Africa in 1998.

Sadly, the Bush administration is cozying up to the Taliban regime at a time when the United Nations, at U.S. insistence, imposes sanctions on Afghanistan because the Kabul government will not turn over Bin Laden.

The war on drugs has become our own fanatics' obsession and easily trumps all other concerns. How else could we come to reward the Taliban, who has subjected the female half of the Afghan population to a continual reign of terror in a country once considered enlightened in its treatment of women?

At no point in modern history have women and girls been more systematically abused than in Afghanistan where, in the name of madness masquerading as Islam, the government in Kabul obliterates their fundamental human rights. Women may not appear in public without being covered from head to toe with the oppressive shroud called the burkha , and they may not leave the house without being accompanied by a male family member. They've not been permitted to attend school or be treated by male doctors, yet women have been banned from practicing medicine or any profession for that matter.

The lot of males is better if they blindly accept the laws of an extreme religious theocracy that prescribes strict rules governing all behavior, from a ban on shaving to what crops may be grown. It is this last power that has captured the enthusiasm of the Bush White House.

The Taliban fanatics, economically and diplomatically isolated, are at the breaking point, and so, in return for a pittance of legitimacy and cash from the Bush administration, they have been willing to appear to reverse themselves on the growing of opium. That a totalitarian country can effectively crack down on its farmers is not surprising. But it is grotesque for a U.S. official, James P. Callahan, director of the State Department's Asian anti-drug program, to describe the Taliban's special methods in the language of representative democracy: “The Taliban used a system of consensus-building,” Callahan said after a visit with the Taliban, adding that the Taliban justified the ban on drugs “in very religious terms.”

Of course, Callahan also reported, those who didn't obey the theocratic edict would be sent to prison.

In a country where those who break minor rules are simply beaten on the spot by religious police and others are stoned to death, it's understandable that the government's “religious” argument might be compelling. Even if it means, as Callahan concedes, that most of the farmers who grew the poppies will now confront starvation. That's because the Afghan economy has been ruined by the religious extremism of the Taliban, making the attraction of opium as a previously tolerated quick cash crop overwhelming.

For that reason, the opium ban will not last unless the U.S. is willing to pour far larger amounts of money into underwriting the Afghan economy.

As the Drug Enforcement Administration's Steven Casteel admitted, “The bad side of the ban is that it's bringing their country–or certain regions of their country–to economic ruin.” Nor did he hold out much hope for Afghan farmers growing other crops such as wheat, which require a vast infrastructure to supply water and fertilizer that no longer exists in that devastated country. There's little doubt that the Taliban will turn once again to the easily taxed cash crop of opium in order to stay in power.

The Taliban may suddenly be the dream regime of our own war drug war zealots, but in the end this alliance will prove a costly failure. Our long sad history of signing up dictators in the war on drugs demonstrates the futility of building a foreign policy on a domestic obsession.

- - -

Robert Scheer Is a Syndicated Columnist.

Copyright © 2001 Robert Schee

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Grunt fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Það sem heimurinn þarf að gera (BNA, NATO, Rússar) er að ganga í lið með hinu svokallaða Norðurbandalagi (North Alliance), sem heldur enn um 5-10% af landi í norðaustur Afganistan. Með þeim hætti myndu líkur á því að þeir fengju allt landið upp á móti sér, eins og gerðist fyrir Sovétríkin á sínum tíma, minnka stórkostlega, og mjög erfitt yrði að setja slíkt upp sem eitthvað “vesturlönd v.s. múslímar” þar sem Norðurbandalagið er samtök múslíma, það bara vill svo til að þeim semur frekar illa við Talibana. Síðan finnst mér líklegt að þeir muni reyna að upphugsa einhverjar leiðir til að ljúka því sem byrjað var á fyrir 10 árum síðan, að koma Satan Hussein frá í Írak og koma því landi inn í nútímann aftur, en það er síðari tíma mál.

-Gulli

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b52 fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Grunt góð hugmynd að gera bandalag (north Alliance) það yrði vonandi til þess að færi saklausir borgarar myndu deyja

með kveðju
b 52

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Vindur fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Kanar eru klikk..+

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash19.htm

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ADD fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

Heyr, heyr, leyfum Talebönum að stjórna áfram í Afganistan svo þeir geti drepið sitt eigið fólk og svelt það í hel með því að takmarka aðgang hjálpastarfsmanna. Leyfum klósettunum á þeim örfáu fæðingardeildum sem eru í Afganistan að vera brún af þykkum skít. Leyfum þeim að hengja og skjóta fólkið sitt á fótboltavöllum. Leyfum ekkjum og börnum þeirra að belta. Leyfum Talebönum að flá fólk lifandi og nauðga litlum stelpum. Leyfum fólkinu að svelta í hel af því að hjálparstofnarnir megi ekki hjálpa fólkinu af því að þær eru að breiða út kristni og afvegaleiða þetta fólk.
Því allt þetta bitnar ekki á saklausum borgunum!! Augljóslega þá er Talebanastjórnin réttmæt annars myndi fólkið rísa gegn henni. Hver hefur svo sem látið hluti eins og hungur, sin eigin dauða, eða limlestingar stoppa sig í því að rísa gegn ógnarstjórn. Þessi stjórn er greinilega réttmæt og þetta fólk í Afganistan þarfast engrar aðstoðar við að losa sig við hana.
Látum okkur líða vel og höfum það gott!

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[Notanda eytt] fyrir 22 árum, 7 mánuðum

hmmmm kannski full over the top kaldhæðni

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